Baseball Franchise History for Newbies Topic

tombarrister
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Quote: Originally Posted By Bilfert on 1/27/2008Minnesota Twins

Minnesota Twins (1961 - 2007)
Washington Senators (1901 - 1960)

Yes the Twins get Walter Johnson and Goose Goslin.

*There is an unrelated Senators franchise from 1891-1899.
There's another Senators franchise that played from 1961 to 1971, when they moved to Texas. They'd count as the Texas Rangers for franchise league purposes.
1/31/2008 10:19 PM
dolphinsfan
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Quote: Originally Posted By Bilfert on 1/27/2008The Baltimore Orioles

The current Baltimore franchise was founded in 1901 as the Milwaukee Brewers. To confuse things further, there was another franchise called the Baltimore Orioles that started in 1901. This franchise went on to become the New York Yankees.

So... the current Baltimore Orioles lineage is as follows:

1901 Milwaukee Brewers
1902-1953 St. Louis Browns
1954- Current Baltimore Orioles

There was another very successful unrelated Baltimore Orioles franchise in the 1800's that played in the old American ***ociation and then the Old National League. This team featured the great hitters l**** John McGraw, Willie Keeler, Joe Kelley and Hughie Jenning to name a few.

So what would you suggest is done with the old Baltimore Orioles? There's quite a few quality players there to not have the ability to use. I didn't realize this in a league I'm in and neither did others. It would be a shame to not have them involved.
2/2/2008 10:54 AM
Bilfert
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You are missing the point. There needs to be a defined structure. They should be selected as the 1800's Baltimore Orioles and used as a stand alone franchise. I have found a way to include them in my Multi-Franchise League. They have been selected multiple times in every season.

The only thing that is the same is the name. By your argument, why can't ANYONE take them? Since they are not related to the Rangers, but maybe they should take them as it would be sad not to have them. Maybe the Rangers should get Walter Johnson since they were once called the Senators?

they are just as related to the New York Yankees as they are to the current Baltimore Orioles.

You see, this just turns into Chaos if you do not follow the rules.
2/2/2008 11:00 AM
mudbone1969
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I've asked for a simliar feature to be included in the past 3 or 4 major updates....the ability to search one franchise that has been in different cities at the same time. It's a pain in the *** to search Philly, KC and Oakland when doing an A's franchise and the like. They keep promising it, then fail to back their mouths up.
In short, they probably won't pay this any mind, but it's a good idea.
2/2/2008 1:43 PM
Bilfert
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I think that the addition of 2 additional search spaces was a good start, but recently searching a Multi-Franchise League I need 8 spaces. I think that the bigger problem is that when searching the Orioles ALL the Orioles franchises are included or the St. Louis Browns both the Cards and Orioles versions are included.
2/2/2008 2:14 PM
Bilfert
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I am in a league right now where a guy took the Orioles. He proceed to take Tip O'Neill (from the Browns that belong to the Cardinals), Willie Keeler, John McGraw, Hughie Jennings. All Illegal to the Orioles Franchise.

When I pointed out that he had illegal players. He said it was a mistake. He proceeded to swap O'Neill for Joe Kelley (from the defunct Baltimore Orioles, and illegal) and George Sisler, who was legal, for Joe Kelley (from the defunct Baltimore Orioles, and illegal). The commissioner who has allowed this.

Now this owner has 5 illegal players on his roster and they are all in the top 6 in hitting in the league. Yes the entire league. Of course he is in my division.
2/2/2008 2:22 PM
JohnGPF
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...there's nothing fuzzy about it from a franchise perspective...
...a franchise is a legal entity, the relevant meanings of the word for a legal business entity being:
2.the right or license granted by a company to an individual or group to market its products or services in a specific territory.
3.a store, restaurant, or other business operating under such a license.
4.the territory over which such a license extends.
...the 1901-02 AL orioles were without any doubt a different franchise than the NL oriole franchise which, in fact, legally existed through the end of the 1901 NL season with league voting rights and a "team" which consisted of a groundskeeper to maintain union park in playing condition...the new and different AL oriole franchise, as a result, had to play in the new oriole park which only existed as a ballpark for the 2 seasons the new and different AL franchise played in baltimore...
2/7/2008 6:03 AM
Slobahonnis
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Quote: Originally Posted By Bilfert on 1/27/2008Cleveland Indians


Cleveland Indians (1915 - 2007)
Cleveland Naps (1903 - 1914)
Cleveland Bronchos (1902)
Cleveland Blues (1901)

*Please note that the Cleveland Infants and Cleveland Spiders are not related to the current Indians.


A bit of trivia: The team name was changed to Naps in honor of their player-coach Napoleon Lajoie.
2/8/2008 8:50 PM
bbwinnow
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Just played against the Naps in SLL. So what team are they related to again?
2/17/2008 2:47 PM
genemock91
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Quote: Originally Posted By Angry Beaver on 1/30/2008
All us Brewer's fans get the Seattle Pilots too! I don't think I've ever used a player but Sicks Stadium comes in handy.
my 1st title ever was a brewers team i used at sicks
2/29/2008 10:31 AM
ncih
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You can create a theme league, choose franchise soup, and select your franchise.
That will solve the search problems mentioned earlier.
3/13/2008 6:27 AM
icness
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The Cleveland Spiders were folded into the St. Louis Perfectos sometime during the 1899 season and the combined franchise became the Cardinals the following year. It's detailed in the biography of Tris Speaker that came out a couple years ago. It's also in the commemorative "100 years of Cleveland Indians" book that was sent out to season-ticket holders in the 2001 season. Unfortunately I don't have either book handy to give the minutae, but the Spiders were bleeding money and the NL wanted to strengthen the St. Louis franchise, so they merged the sorry Spiders (who went 20-134) into the Perfectos. Note that any player of consequence for the 1899 Spiders wound up playing for the Cards in 1900--Lave Cross, Ossie Schreckengost, Willie Sudhoff. It also gets you access to Cy Young for the Cardinals in franchise leagues, as he pitched for the 1898 Spiders.
4/11/2008 6:19 PM
Bilfert
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That is interesting icness. I would encourage you to e-mail the guy from Baeball-reference.com. I have e-mailed him before and he always replies.

Not that the Cards need anymore players.
4/11/2008 7:56 PM
thejuice6
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http://www.wcnet.org/~dlfleitz/cleve.htm
4/20/2008 10:13 PM
contrarian23
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The same thing could largely be said about the Louisville/Pittsburgh franchises....but I think this (two teams effectively merging, or one being absorbed by the other) is quite different from one team simply changing cities/leagues/names.
4/22/2008 6:17 AM
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